I'm writing this in the afterglow of one of the worst debate performances (by both the President and the moderator) in history.
I'd love to think this won't smell as badly in the light of day and with the passage of a little time, but I know better. When an estimated audience of 60 million people tunes in to watch the theater of a debate, more than a few of them are undecided voters... and I can't believe anyone watching that debate came away thinking President Obama won the night.
There will be a moderate bump in the polls for Romney, and a lot (!) of pressure will suddenly be placed upon the shoulders of Paul Ryan and Vice President Biden going into their debate a week from tomorrow.
This was a very, very, very, very bad night for President Obama. That makes it a very bad night for America.
The Republicans sent a pit bull into the ring, and the Democrats tossed it a drugged puppy.
No amount of positive spin bullshit will make this look good, and I don't think time is going to help ease the pain.
We may very well have seen this race turn around completely in one disastrous debate performance by the President.
25 comments:
Yup! I thought it was great too!
I missed it live, but I plan on watching it when it re-airs. Was it that bad?
I thought it was less bad than that but I only saw about a half hour.
Kerry beat Bush in the first one too ...
Missed the second half but when Rachael Maddow and Ed Shultz say Obama lost it must have been in the same class of disaster as the Titanic.
Yeah...I slept through it. Just like I sleep through everything else.
Squat. Dude- chill the fuck out. Here, have a Valium.
This wasn't a fucking prize fight, it was a debate. Debates, as I recall from my breif tenure on high school debate team, is about substance and organization and presentation.
But if it had been a prize fight, Mitt Romney would have been disqualified in the second round for repeated rules violations and low blows.
On the biggest stage of his life, Romney lied. He stepped into every factual trap in his path, and some with both feet.
I feel you, Rachel and Ed have fallen for the same brainless bullshit that Rush Limbaugh has been selling.
Sure, I wish Obama had bitten back, but he's the President and not simply a candidate with a ten point deficit in the polls.
More to come.
Mooner, you may be right. Maybe Americans are so up-to-speed on the facts Romney was mangling and distorting that they'll recognize his prevarications and hold him in contempt. Maybe the ignorant electorate will make fact-based judgments, and not go by the tenor of the drama...
Okay, now that you're through laughing at THOSE possibilities, realize this: you can never underestimate the ignorance and gullibility of the average American voter. You'll always (!) be disappointed if you do.
People tune in to these kabuki dances because they want to see the massive blunder, the car wreck, the fatal mistake. What they saw instead was one candidate who spewed a litany of "facts" at the other guy, ignored the moderator and the debate's rules, and another candidate who humbly stood behind his podium and took punches all fucking night.
Rope-a-dope only works if you hit back at the end of the fight. If you leave off that important part of the strategy, you're just a punching bag.
I believe you're giving the ignorant masses WAY too much credit. They don't know Romney's facts and figures were bullshit, and no one bothered to call him on it while they were watching. Think Joe SixPack in Peoria is tuned in to the fact-check today?
Not a fucking chance. He's at the garage telling his buddies how Mitt mopped the floor with that socialist Kenyan.
This couldn't have gone worse if Obama had walked out with a Taliban turban on his head...
Squat. OK, take a second Valium.
If you want to give that one to Romney as a No Contest win, go ahead. But remember that the those gullible voters had Omama ahead based upon the facts before last night.
Romney gave no verifiable facts for his ideas and will be faced with defending both that and with the fact that he repeatedly lied.
Step away from the ledge, my friend, it's all about the truth this time.
I see some instant polls say the smirker in chief has higher favorables this morning. I have more empathy than most I guess, I thought the constant glaring from Romney for the first hour made him look like a hatefully bully when coupled with lies and a host of new flip flops. I can hardly see how fundamentalist republicans can be happy with his reversal of even more of his previous positions last night.
Fringe, I'm having trouble keeping my eyes open after Mooner's second Valium... but don't think for a minute that fundie repubs give a shit about Romney's flip-flops. They wouldn't have nominated the guy if that mattered. All they care about is beating Obama, and they'd vote for Joe Lieberman if they thought that would do the trick.
Facts don't matter at this point. GOP voters are going to vote the ticket, and Dems are going to do the same thing.
What mattered last night is that Obama didn't show up with most of the country's undecideds were tuned in and paying attention. They don't fact check. Hell, half of 'em didn't know who was running until they watched last night's debate.
This was bad, regardless of what someone might think from the pharmacy... (Don, that's you...)
Dearest Squatty : http://assets.diylol.com/hfs/2eb/8cb/128/resized/obama-meme-generator-yo-calm-the-fuck-down-i-got-this-shit-6cb3a4.jpg
I dunno what network YOU watched, but I watched Cspan (no talking heads telling me what MY take should be) and at werst PBO's performance was ... Meh. Fer shure Willard wasn't the Hateful Zinging baboon he was expected to be but NONE of his shit added up, he didn't give ANY specifics to ANY his "plans", and he came across as a mean spirited, interrupting,rude, future assassin of Big Bird. Obama
didn't seem to perform as well because he was dealing in a fact based reality which Rmoney wouldn't acknowledge. PBO was frustrated and he showed it. He also deemed distracted ... BUT ... to me he was VERY Presidential throughout. Although he didn't go for Romney's throat (man! I kept WAITING for a shout out to the 47%!) he made all his talking points COUNT. Soooo .... DOOD! Chill the fuck out. I know you U.T. fans are used to panicking? but DAY-UM! it wern't that bad ....... but I'm anxious to hear Krispy Kreme Christy's "SEE! I TOLD You Fuckers!"
Yeah, it's just a UT thing, getting all weak in the knees at the prospect of having Mitt Romney and the Koch brothers setting the agenda for the next four years... naming two or three Soupreems along the way, overturning Roe V Wade, blocking EPA requirements, invading Iran, doubling down on Afghanafuckingstan, etc.
I'd feel a lot better about this shit if I didn't have a pretty good radar for political trends.
That's all. Nothing major. Just the future of the free world, democracy itself, and merchants of evil ruling from the White HOuse again.
But all is well. Nothing to see here, folks. Move along.
I don't care what channel you were watching, this was a clusterfuck of a disaster.
Ok, I finally checked it out. Romney did lie, but he wasn't called out on it. I don't think it's good to allow him to lie on national TV and then call him out on it the next day in front of a crowd of people who are going to vote for Obama anyway. Shouldn't Obama have outed him in front of the undecided voters instead of pandering to Democrats who are already on his side?
Wow, Squat. Feeling any better this morning??! I know where you're coming from. We, too, were frustrated and disappointed by the Prez's performance, and felt Romney was trying to really make a point (what, we're not sure) of staring BO down as he spoke. I'm not sure I agree that all the undecideds will take Romney at face value tho. If they really are "independent" and not sure which way to swing, then perhaps, hopefully, they do at least skim sites like factchecker and npr for a breakdown of what actually took place last night. MSNBC kinda pissed me off b/c they focused so much energy on the "look" of the debate, vs what was actually said during the course of it, which would've been just as dramatic as getting all pissy b/c PBO didn't utilize his left hook at every opportunity. Still, I have hope. Hope that every last one of us Dems are so committed to either supporting the Prez or ensuring Romney's pretentious ass doesn't get elected that we will vote in droves up until the 11th hour of election day.
Thank Q: I don't think it's good to allow him to lie on national TV and then call him out on it the next day in front of a crowd of people who are going to vote for Obama anyway.
No, They'll call him out on it in a bunch of ads to run in the swing states. They're already coming out.
Yeah, Obama's performance was a lemon, but they're getting some lemonade out of it, and he knows he needs to do better next time. Debates don't generally move the needle much in the polls, anyway. Obama lost a battle, but it wasn't a very important battle in the overall war.
SQ- Your goal is to see Obama reelected, you are correct in being worried.
Mooner- Your recollection of high school debate is correct. But I think your wrong about Romney, I did not see any excessive rule violations or low blows. At least no more than Obama.
Mooner, BJ, Fringe, Q,-I would ask for you to explain what Romney lied about.
Infidel- Do you think the President keeping his mouth shut during the debates, only to retort in campaign adds being run in swing states is a good thing? Absolutely not. It shows me two things.
1- He is more arrogant than I originally believed, and
2- Romney was telling more truths than given credit for. Axelrod's turn to spin it.
Squat- Are you upset, because you feel that Romney just gained Independent votes?
Or are you upset because, Obama is looking more like a failure?
The fact is, one man acted like a President that night, and it wasn't Obama.
My personal opinion is that he was not fit to receive the DNC nomination.
Do you think the President keeping his mouth shut during the debates, only to retort in campaign adds being run in swing states is a good thing?
No. he blew it in the debate, as I made clear. My point is that it's not the huge disaster some are spinning it as, and there's still some value to be wrung from Romney's lies and flip-flops.
J.O.B., Are trying to tell me that Rmoney DOESN'T plan to cut $5T from the budget ... AND raise Defense spending by $2T MORE than they requested? Gimmee a break!His figures do not converge with REALITY! Additionally
Romney, on multiple occasions, contradicted positions he’d championed earlier in the campaign several times.
Romney, for instance, said Wednesday, "I will not reduce the taxes paid by high-income Americans."
Democrats say that pledge would seem to run counter to earlier vows to cut taxes for everyone — "including the top 1 percent" — to eliminate the estate tax, which would heavily favor the wealthy, and to extend the Bush-era tax rates for everyone, including the highest earners.
Romney during the debate also vowed, "I'm not going to cut education funding."
Yet, on his campaign website, Democrats point out Romney pledges to "send Congress a bill on Day One that cuts non-security discretionary spending" — which includes education funds — "by 5 percent across the board" and "pass the House Republican Budget proposal," which would cut billions of dollars from education programs.
Romney endorsed bank regulations at Wednesday’s debate. "Regulation is essential," he said. "You can't have a free market work if you don't have regulation."
This remark has Democrats crying foul, as his website warns that "regulations function as a hidden tax" and vows that Romney "will act swiftly to tear down the vast edifice of regulations the Obama administration has imposed."
Additionally, Romney suggested that his healthcare plan would guarantee coverage to anyone with a pre-existing medical condition, forcing his campaign to clarify afterwards that the guarantee would not extend to those with pre-existing conditions who've had a gap in their coverage.
Romney's campaign office declined to comment on these specific issues Friday, pointing instead to a Thursday statement from spokeswoman Amanda Henneberg, who accused the Obama campaign of going into post-debate damage-control mode with "false attacks, petulant statements, and lies about Gov. Romney’s record."
Questions about Romney's political motivations and conservative bona fides have long-dogged the former Massachusetts governor, who once supported abortion rights, enacted gun reform, conceded that humans are causing climate change and championed an individual insurance mandate.
Romney used Wednesday's debate "to do a two-step and reposition" away from the hard-line conservative stands he took during the GOP primary.
I'm not the only one actually paying attention to WHAT HE WAS SAYING AND NOT JUST HIS OSCAR WERTHY PERFORMANCE:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xcwgDULlQB0&feature=youtu.be
How about YOU, J.O.B. give us a reference where he told the truth! I mean OTHER than the part where he'll fire Jim Lehrer and Big Bird .....
J.O.B. (see BJ's comment) All politicians lie, but Romney contradicted himself quite a bit this past Wednesday. And to insinuate that he would have anything to do with 12 million jobs being created when that was projected a long time ago is like taking credit for the sun rising tomorrow. Romney isn't genuine at all. I have some issues with Obama, too, but Romney is on another level.
Infidel- That is true. It wasn't a huge disaster, but I think Obama's lack of combativeness, preparedness, or just plain arrogance, helped Romney garner some Independent votes. Which I think is what worries Squatty.
BJ- I thought He explained the 5T pretty well, and I believe he did it more than once. He needs to come clean, on which deductions and loopholes he plans on closing. Obama should've nailed him on this.
According to Politifact, his comments on MA. schools, and 42% of our economy being Government is mostly true.
Of course Romney Is moving more center. He has the far Right vote. In order to win, he needs the Independent vote. You can call it two stepping all you want. The truth is, that's a presidential race in a nutshell. Obama needs to do the same thing.
In my opinion, Obama should try to throw social policy into the ring. Romney made a deal of the 10th Amendment, and state's rights. Yet his platform is to amend the Constitution to define marriage as between a man and a woman. Where clearly, this is a state issue that falls under the beloved 10th Amendment.
"Moving Center"? "MOVING CENTER"? The Bottom line, J.O.B., is that Romney never OWNED any of the conservation chowder he's been dishing out during his run up to the debates, contradicted himself on many occasions and outright LIED about his(and RYAN'S!) tax plan! Did he believe all the sputum he was spewing? He sure ACTED like he did (practice, practice, practice!) but you can bet your granny's booties that if the electorate gives this douche bag a chance at POTUS ..... he'll revert to the 47% Mitt. Shake shake shake, shake shake shake .... shake yo' etch-a-sketch .... shake yo' etch-a-sketch! He Wants .... More TEACHERS!!??? Like I said .... gimmee a fuckin' BREAK!
BJ- How exactly did he lie about his tax plan. I believe it was a bunch of Liberal blogs that I've been reading for weeks, that claimed something funny because he didn't release any plan.
I'm not sure what we'll see if Romney is elected. I still believe Obama has a better than decent chance to win a second term. He NEEDS to go into social policy to accomplish that though, at least in my opinion.
If the last two POTUS debates go like the first, I think Squats nightmares will come true.
um .... please allow me to start with an apology for the sophomoric etch-a-sketch chant on my last comment. Yet more evidence that one should never post a comment in an open forum when one's mood has been seriously "altered". Sorry.
Now to the lies:
Willard's website says (and I have a video of the werds coming out of his lying mouth)He specifies a 20% cut in income tax rates, a 40% cut in the corporate tax rate, repeal of the estate tax and alternative minimum tax and elimination of taxes on interest, dividends and capital gains for households with incomes below $200,000.(http://www.mittromney.com/issues/tax). The Independent Non Partisan Tax Policy Center AND the Wall Street Journal BOTH say that will reduce revenues by $4.8T. Wednesday night, however, he said he was "Not in favor of a $5T tax cut"(on more than one occasion) and he would keep marginal rates at their current levels while raising Defense spending by $2T MORE than already budgeted. Which is it? Either he's lying on his website (and on camera multiple times) ... or he lied in front of America Wednesday night(on camera, multiple times). Furthermore, by not being forthcoming about how he "PLANS" to do this he is being at the minimum evasive about his "PLAN" details, or just talking out of his hat(read lying). He SAYS he'll end certain deductions and cap total deductions, (at first he said a cap of $17K but the other night he said "it might be $25K or $50K, that's just an example". WHOM, do you suppose can afford (and makes enough money to have) $25K - $50K in deductions? The middle class? The POOR? Certainly not ME! You cannot CUT TAXES BY 20% ACROSS THE BOARD AND INCREASE SPENDING BY $2T. I suppose YOU believe that Willard will offset the cuts and increased spending with revenue from the "12 Million Jobs" he'll create. Unless his "PLAN" includes the Government hiring 12 Million people the FIRST YEAR .... he's already increased the debt by $2T, and BTW how much more would 12 million government jobs cost?
Look, It's Willard's right as an American to say whatever he wants to say but if the numbers don't add up ... yer LYING ... not being "disingenuous" (mealy mouth double speak). Don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining. The bottom line is that Willard hasn't been on the level about ANYTHING since he began this campaign of flipping and flopping while pandering to the local crowds. The fact is that he was a lot more credible back when he was a ONE TERM GOVERNOR of a very liberal state; the only public office he's ever held. Changing your point of view because of THE FACTS is an admirable quality, but changing your POV because of PRESENT COMPANY is despicable! We've already had eight years of a despicable Executive Branch of government and we ain't goin' back!
Lastly, J.O.B., you said .... " I believe it was a bunch of Liberal blogs...". Hell, I remember when THIS used to be a liberal blog!
I meant to add that Squatlo's nightmares ALWAYS come true .... in his DREAMS!
J.O.B. Visual evidence:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=mp-pVwfPZ18
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